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So, you're building [snorts] agents. How do you get customers to pay $5,000 a month for you to build agents for them? That's what this episode is about. And if you're not selling agents, you're going to see the tools that make Hermes agent and other agents so good, the customers will pay for them. All that and so much more here. Of course, we got chapter markers so you can jump around to the sections that you need. And let's get to it. >> Presented by Zapier, the AI automation company. >> Nick, show me the magical moment that gets a customer to say, "I'm ready to pay you 5,000 a month." >> All right, let me show you, Andrew. So a lot of customers, they don't even know what a computer use agent is. They don't know about OpenClaw or Hermes. So all I have to do is I have to show them what it's like for an AI to operate a computer. So here we're in Orgo. I tell the agent, hey, let's open up Chrome. Let's search up Andrew Warner. And then you can see here the agent just takes over and it's able to operate the computer. And this is what matters for customers. You know, in this episode, we're going to be talking about how to sell 5K a month agents to businesses. And you have to capture their attention in a way that makes sense. There's so much noise with AI and no one knows what you're talking about. But when you show an agent operating operating a computer just like we do clicking around, typing in the browser that clicks with them. They get it and now they see all the opportunities in the ways that they can use this in their business. Okay. >> Chat on the left, computer use on the right, the agent is using the computer. I see it all. And Orgo is a company that gives agents computers and frankly also gives humans computers to create agents which will then have computers. It's basically the computer agent connection, right? >> Exactly. And that's exactly right. Like even humans can use these computers. A lot of our users, they'll spin up a computer and they'll we'll see them using the computer themselves a lot for work. So yeah, Orgo is the place where you can spin up instantly as many computers as you need. Uh and obviously the intent is to give it to an agent so the agent can actually do real, you know, knowledge work with that computer. >> For any agent at all, you were selling this yourself. How much did you make selling this type of service meaning agent creating agents? >> So I didn't have an audience. I wasn't building Orgo at the time. It was actually I was building on top of it. My co-founder I joined him later. Uh what happened was I made 7K in my first month building AI agents for businesses and we looked at each other. We're living in the same hacker house and we're like we should just work together. Um so yeah. And then you decided you're going to build a software company which is now Orgo >> uh which is a software look we're looking at. So you've had customers who will then go and get clients who pay them how much a month to build agents like this >> 5k a month. All of our users, majority of our users on Orgo are building agencies and they're building these agents for other small medium businesses, men market companies, and they're deploying these Hermes agents, OpenClaw agents into these businesses, and they're managing it all for them. And then they're they're charging like a 5K a month retainer. Uh I just tweeted about one of our users, he has four customers, 5K a month each, so he's making 20K a month, and he wants to use our scale plan to get a million a year uh by the end of the year. and he's like a small town in Idaho. He just needs 20 customers to do that. Um, >> okay. Let's talk about everything. We're going to talk about the offer that you make to get a customer, the stack, meaning the software that you use to build it. And we're going to show the software that customers need in order to get the agent for them. You're going to show us more about how to get customers, how to fulfill the offer, meaning like it's not just set up the agent and then walk away. And then how do you retain them so that they're constantly paying $5,000 a month because they're seeing enough value. So the first part of it is the offer. What is the offer that you're making that will get someone to pay? >> The key here with the offer is to make it super simple. There's so many things and variables you can charge for with AI. Tokens, security, usage, all the all these different noise. So, we make it super simple. We say, "Okay, we're going to charge 5K a month. It's unlimited tokens, unlimited agents, unlimited automations." Obviously, when I say unlimited, that makes a lot of people their ears perk up like, "What do you mean unlimited?" The the intent here is to put them at ease, solve their problems, whether it's they need five agents or one agent. The the key here is we're solving their problems and they're paying 5K a month for it, right? People aren't paying >> 5K 5K a month for Hermes agent, which is freaking free. The whole idea is it's open source is free. Why would somebody pay you 5,000 for it? >> These business owners, they don't know a thing about Hermes agent. They haven't heard about a Hermes agent, Open Claw. >> So, we try to make money off their stupidity. They'll eventually be smart enough. They're going to get a Hermes agent. They're going to Google it and they're going to see that it's free. >> I think it's like the same way a business owner can go make a website for free, they'll still pay somebody 20K to make a really beautiful website and the free thing isn't going to solve their problems out of the box. Like if you've built on top of these agents, you know how actual like you need to spend a lot of time, you know, really tailoring these workflows and automations and it's like things break. So that expertise is valuable and that's that's where you come in and you're managing everything for them and they don't have to worry about. >> I like uh concrete examples. You happen to mention before we got started an insurance agency. Um tell me about them just so I get a sense of why an insurance agency would hire a consultant to build an agent for them to do what? >> So the key here is this, right? We have an insurance customer. They're an insurance software company. So the key here is their customers are insurance agencies, meaning their customers are businesses. And so yes, come into a company like this insurance software company and solve their problems with a AI agent, >> data automation, pulling customer data from a competitor platform, putting it into their own platform. Um, >> wait, let me pause on that one. So the idea is this insurance agency has a new customer. the customer had an old insurance company that they were working with before with data with policies and so on. Instead of a human being going and grabbing it, the Hermes agent will go and grab that and then make it accessible to the insurance agency. And that's what they're paying for an Hermes agent to do. One of many tasks. >> Exactly. One of many. And that that was something that, by the way, they said would charge anywhere between$10 to $30,000 for that data scraping that they would have to do with human manually. Like that's what the insurance company would usually charge. and now we just were able to do it with Hermes. So, >> okay, we're going to get into like how do you get customers and how do you uncover things like that in a moment, but why don't we take a look at the stack? What is actually going into doing this? >> Yeah. So, the key here is like obviously Hermes um this is the harness we use. The reason why is it's the most reliable and at this point it's the fastest growing and they have the most support. So, u Hermes is the the harness we use for the agent. as far as what a harness is, like there's the model and then there's the tools and the kind of everything the architecture around that model. That's what the harness is and that's what we use Hermes for. Um, speaking of the model, >> OpenClaw, >> OpenClaw, so I love OpenClaw. I I made the first viral OpenClaw video. It's my it's my big head moment. Um, and I love OpenClaw, but it had so many reliability issues in the beginning when we were using it for businesses. And when Hermes came out, it solved all of that. and we haven't had any reason to switch back. So, yeah, >> I agree. I have really been enjoying Hermes agent. All right, Hermes agent email. What do you give uh why do you always give email to your agents and what service do you use? >> Yeah, so I actually use Oh, I don't have it pulled up here, but I use agent mail. Um, >> so this is the company we use, actually good friends with the founders. It's the easiest way to spin up an email for your agent, period. Um, and you just give it an API and it's able to spin up an inbox and have access to it for itself. >> I used it, too. The reason that I like it is because I don't have to log into anything. The one thing I had to do is go into my email and confirm some number and give it to my agent to confirm I was a real human. The thing that I didn't like about it is, and this I see with everyone who uses agent mail almost on the bottom of every message they send says it says sent with agent mail. I talked to the founder says you can remove it. It wasn't obvious to my agent. we didn't know it, but definitely remove that junk from the bottom of the message. Do you even use um do you give them a custom domain or are you sticking with the agent mail domain? >> I actually so I actually stick with the agent mail domain because there's something charming a little bit about knowing that you're it's your it's your agent that's emailing you. Like there's something kind of off when it's like the agent is emailing somebody on behalf of the human. That's kind of weird. So it's like rather than having the agent use my you know Nick or.ai I >> to email somebody and then it comes across as inauthentic because it's clearly AI generated. It's like give the agent its own email. Obviously it's an agent. Obviously it's an AI. So when it emails and it's AI slop it's like oh it's it's like it's fake because you can't fake it. It's and you're you're being authentic. Okay. Next for iMessage. People are going to be upset with me for talking so fast but I have to. Why do you like iMessage and what service do you use to give it iMessage? So, once again, I'm not affiliated, but I love the product, and I'm good friends with them. Uh, agent phone, they have a really simple way, just like agent mail. They have the simplest way to make a iMessage for your agent. Um, you just give it a prompt. It's able to use the API. It spins it up. >> Interesting. So, I don't even need to have software on my desktop to do it. >> No, no, you don't install any Yeah, you don't even install any local application or anything like that. You just give a prompt to your agent and it's able to do everything for you. >> I had no idea. How much is it? Uh, so I think they're pricing, let me let's double check. Okay. Yeah. 150 for iMessage. Now, here's the key. >> With one iMessage number, let's say you're building a poke, you know, poke, the iMessage agent, you you text it and it's like a assistant. >> Okay. Don't >> they Well, with one iMessage number, you could support up to like 6,000 different conversations. So, you don't need a new iMessage number for every customer. You could actually use one and support all your customers. >> I see. So this really makes sense for agencies more than for a person. What about for an individual? What's the price on the left? Three bucks a month for what? >> Yeah, for this is like for their basic like so it's not iMessage, but it is like you know green bubble which is fine. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So this is this is another benefit that you can give a client that instead of them having to go and sign up and pay this much. Got it. All right. Uh then for payment, you said agent card. What is agent card? Why do you like it and why don't you use it much? >> So I I use agent card. I tried it out. Um, I think it's still early. So, I'm I'm still trying to get used to like what the how how are these agents going to pay for things. I I have a feeling that maybe it's going to be more in Stripe's uh in Cloudflare's direction with the I don't know if you heard of like NPP from Stripe. It's the machine payment protocol. But anyway, I I think payments with agents is still very early. Uh I went to an event, the CEO of Stripe, he said he still thinks it's going to be three or four years before this really picks up. But if you want to give your agent a card, you can do that. Um, and they can they can pay for things. Um, >> you know, it's a stupid question, but why um why why not just give it a credit card in chat? Create a ramp credit card with a with a really tight limit. >> That's what I do. That's >> I use Mercury. I use Mercury [laughter] and it's it's very API friendly. Yeah. So, uh I actually I I think that that's the simpler way. And with computer use, it just can enter in your your info. So, >> okay. Um, let's go on to the next uh the next tool. What's the next thing that that you need in order to set these agents up? >> I give every agent uh memory is a thing that like with customers if it doesn't remember something, it just pisses them off so much and understandably. So, it's like >> honcho.dev they have a really good we use this for um you know really good memory layer for the Hermes agent. Um and yeah, just out of the box you give it to your agent, it works really well. uh better than the more the default um Hermes setup. So yeah, haunted.dev. I recommend that. >> And it wait is is this a like a cloud-based service that would that would host the memory? It is. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't know that one. Okay. Why we're going to talk about Obsidian in a moment? Why don't you bring that up? And then why not use Obsidian then? What do you need hono.dev and Obsidian for? >> Yeah. So Obsidian is like is so a knowledge base is separate from a memory. uh a memory is more readily available. It's like uh you can imagine like it's fast. It's like very short term. You can you can ask the agent, it knows right away. The knowledge base with with Obsidian is more like long-term memory. It has to search, grab all the files, you know, see how they're all interconnected and so forth. That is what Obsidian is useful for. Um so like longunning projects are keeping up with like I have in my Obsidian, this is this customer name. This is their computer ID in Orgo. this is what the computer's being used for. Like that's what Obsidian's great at um and visualizing. Mainly the thing with Obsidian is it's actually something that's made for us really. The agent could live without the interface of Obsidian, but it actually happens to be very useful for us to be able to see it all the agents work. Um and then also there's some benefit of Obsidian with the markdown and the hyperlinking of it. Uh it is pretty agent friendly. >> You know what? I'm still not understanding the difference between Honcho and Obsidian. What goes into Honcho and what goes into Obsidian? Yeah, like honcho would be more like um discreet facts like one-off facts. So for instance, like my birthday is March 29th, 2001. Okay, so then like that honcho would remember that versus Obsidian is more like projectbased, long-term based of like there's more than just a discrete fact. It's more it's more nuanced than that. It's more complex. It's connected to all these other things, if that makes sense. Um >> I I think I might need to spend a little more time to understand it, but I'm I'm with you on it. And then you say Slack and Telegram people still use for connection at times but mostly do they what how do they like to interact with their agent? >> I think the the best place to start is with something like Slack or Telegram. Um Slack is particularly good for agents that are going to be used by the entire uh company or the business that you're serving. Telegram is great for like more of like an personal executive assistant for the customer. Um and then I like iMessage. I've been getting all of our customers into iMessage because of the simplicity and the charm of it. It's like being able to just have no friction and texture agent and it has all these amazing capabilities behind it with computer use and orgo and everything. It's like >> that I think is the winning interface because of the simplicity and you can see with Grockbot like they clearly copied iMessage's interface because of that simplicity. So um I think that that is the future direction. It is really nice though that you and I were in a chat message and you said you know what let me connect you with Dewey and now you Dewey and I are in a chat message and Dewey and I are just talking Dewey your agent and it's just the same old iMessage and I'm kind of pulled into that conversation. Let's go on then to the next step. Now let's talk about how to get customers. So you said that in the beginning to get your first customers when you were doing this as a service provider you started reaching out to people. Who'd you reach out to and what was the offer? I literally reached out to like I had 50 people in my contact list. So, open up your phone, open up your contact list, go down the list and find either business owners or people who are like closely associated with a business. Maybe they're high up in a business or some sort of like, you know, obviously close close to decision-m. Um, and I went through that list within the first day. I had seven booked calls for that week. I had made $3,500 in the first week. Um, closing my first client. I did the first two to three use cases uh free case studies just like getting getting work done. Um and yeah, like I think the the hottest the warmest leads are the ones that are in your phone. They know you already. Um and and the way to reach out is not to say like, "Hey, would you benefit for this?" It's more of, hey, do you know of somebody who could be benefit from, you know, XYZ? And that's always like a good kind of pro tip on that, you know. >> What's the XYZ? So with with us, it's like we want to come into the business and solve the problem. Like forget AI. Like we're trying to automate and take away this boring repetitive task that you're doing already in your business. And the key here is like yes, we want to save you time, but we also want to generate you money. Like can we do activities that are revenue generating at the end of the day? So >> what's a question that would get that out? That would get someone to say, here's a repetitive task that makes me money. >> Yeah. I always kind of ask, so I always nudge them a little bit of like they they'll always kind of give hints of of what what the pain point might be, but I always use the phrase, "What's your first itch?" That's like my favorite phrase. Like, what's your first itch of something that you're spending so much time on every day that's like it's clearly like repetitive and boring and it doesn't help you like grow the business or maybe it does, but it just takes so much time. I always start there and I always say, "Okay, what's the effort of of building out the automation for that? what's that re relevant to the to the outcome and the the the the value of that you know um and then the thing that's the lowest cost effort time with the highest value always start there it's just a good design thinking principle um >> lowest cost effort meaning oh to to create an agent for >> yeah like the lowest cost and effort and time and the highest value start there and deliver it in the first seven days >> so they're going through all their complaints and the things that take up a lot of time they could make money. You're saying, "Okay, what can I actually handle and will produce money for them?" I'm with you on that. Okay. Uh, so that's how you got your first customers. Then you shifted to content. Let me see what what platform are you on? Twitter is where you mostly put your stuff. >> Yeah, Twitter. Um, Twitter's my main platform. It's just my name, Nick Vasillescu. Um, and yeah, I have like this video here I posted um about like a few weeks ago showing uh my agent Dewey onboarding another agent. So, here's where the meta part happens. Andrew, this is kind of crazy. Dewey, who you're in a group chat with, and you saw, uh, he can spin up other agents for me. And the thing about Dewey is he's connected to my granola notes. So, he has all my meeting recordings. So, when I have a customer meeting and I'm talking to the customer and they're telling me about all their use cases and needs and they're telling me about the business and everything, Dewey now has access to that. And so when he builds the agent for the customer, he has all the perfect com relevant context to be able to build it, you know, really tailored for the customer. And in this video here, he's using computer use. He's clicking around Orgo onboarding the agent that he just built into Slack with the customer because with Slack, you need to do the apps. Slack API to set up >> stuff so much. I hate that stuff so much. >> Dewey just did it for me. He used computer use to do it all. And I was just like freaking out. I was like, what the hell? And so 150,000 people like that uh view that. So >> and so basically as you're doing cool stuff with agents, you just talk about it, you show it, and that's what gets that's what gets you customers. All right. Those are the two things that you do. Do you do any out uh outbound cold messaging? Do you have your agent send out email? >> I don't. I really don't. I I think like if you genuinely, you know, aren't good on camera, like for whatever reason, like you you just can't you don't have any warm contacts or anything like that. Okay, do cold outbound, fine. But the reason I'm a little aversive to it is because I don't like to sell to a cold audience. When I get on a call, I want the person to already know what I'm selling. I want them to already know who I am. Me and you, we get on this podcast, like we already know a lot about each other because of content. That's a lot of trust that's baked in. And sales is all about trust. So, it's like I think that's the key is just, you know, um content and show show what you're building, you know. >> Okay. All right. I want to rush through, not rush through, but I want to pack as much as possible into the next few minutes here. Um, then we got fulfillment. One of the things that you say is agent needs to be spun up fast. How fast do you need the first agent up for them? >> I always get the agent up within 24 hours and then I get the first automation solved within seven days. So, the like we just we just had a like a a design agency. We built them their first agent. Uh, got it up immediately. That's the easy part with Orgo. I'll show you how to do that. Um, but the key is, you know, solve an actual problem in the business. For them, it was a whole workflow that they used to that they had to do to make templates for their customers. Um, like brochure templates. >> Okay. >> And yeah, we had an agent that just did every step of the process. They had a whole SOP for how to do this. And we have an agent doing it now. Um, so >> yeah, >> you know, that's another thing you said to me. Any business that has SOPs is a lot easier to work with because they've got these documented procedures that are so systemized that human beings have to act like robots to go through the process. Well, now we've got actual robots who can do it. Okay. And >> and one of the ways that you're able to do the first automation so quickly is because of the templates that you built into Orgo. What are Let me see the templates. >> Yeah. So, here I'm in a workspace in Orgo. You can see all my computers and you can like, you know, quickly change your workspace all all the different customers you might have. >> These are actual computers. Okay. >> Yeah. These are real cloud computers like you can like you know click into them and and operate them just like you normally would. So we have a templates feature here. I go on the sidebar I go to templates and you can spin up a computer with claude Hermes openclaw pre-installed. So I'll say this is like Hermes agent demo and I'll launch this agent and in like 10 20 seconds a full computer with Hermes pre-installed will spin up. I don't have to, you know, manually do anything and yeah, we can just like quickly spin it up like that and no problem, no headaches. >> What's the difference between Orgo doing this and all these other providers that used to host WordPress sites but now are hosting Hermes? Why wouldn't I just use one of them? They're cheap. >> Yeah, with us the biggest thing here is like we provide a full cloud desktop computer. So, right now Hermes is starting to do more and more computer use of clicking around the computer. I think in like three to six months it's going to be like your Hermes agent is going to play Minecraft with you. It's going to play Grand Theft Auto. Like it's going to be so proficient at using the computer. And that's what Orgo is all about is building powerful cloud computers for these agents. >> So if I'm paying for a hacker plan, I get a computer that I get to build Hermes on. Does Hermes then also get a computer to use? >> Exactly. Hermes gets installed into this computer and is able to use it itself, which is really helpful. Yeah. >> Got it. Got it. Okay. All right. That makes that makes a lot of sense. Um, what's next then? What So, what else is in these in these templated packages that allow people to quickly create um an automation for a customer? >> Yeah. So, like this one here, like obviously it's spun up a computer. So, when I go in the terminal here and I type in Hermes, you'll see it's already installed and I can just uh connect to this computer here. We have our connectors. You can connect to the MCP, connect to the CLI, however you want to connect with your coding agent, you can do that. Um, but yeah, it's very simple to spin it up, have Hermes baked in, pre-installed, and then the next step is like, okay, once again, what is this? What is the problem we're solving for the business and start building that process out with the Hermes agent and just really just try and solve that through and through? Um, and you know, manage everything very simply for them to understand and meet them where they're at. If it's Slack, it's Slack. If it's Telegram, Telegram. You know, >> when it comes to customer success, one of the things that you do is you have the Hermes agent that you have at your business in a chat with your client. And that way, if there's an issue, they message you or they text you and then your agent jumps in and says, "You know what? Actually, I'll take care of it." And the agent goes and handles the problem. That is that what you're looking at right here? >> Yeah. So, on the left here, I have like this uh group chat. >> That's my chat. Wait, so my chat is in That's the app. What's the app that my chat is is in? Got it. Okay. >> This is uh just iMessage. Yeah. So, if I text So, this is a group chat for everyone watching. This is like a group chat with me, Andrew, and Dewey. Dewey is my AI agent. And I'll just say, "Hey, Dewey." Uh, but this is just to show you like, look, we're in iMessage right now. We had a full conversation earlier uh with Dewey and Andrew talking about, hey, can you spin up Andrew an agent? And so a Andrew actually has an agent that Dewey spun up for him and he could talk to. Uh and it all happened here in this group chat. And Dewey did a lot of cool other stuff. You can say, "Okay, he said, "Hi, Nick. What's up?" Um but let me show you this. This is really cool. Dewey actually made a a demo here. He even generated thumbnails for this YouTube video that we just did uh we're filming right now. And Dewey did all of this. Um he just sent it here in iMessage, which is crazy. [laughter] And then I said I didn't really I didn't really like that. And I had a couple of uh notes. Oh, I know what it was. Then I said, "Take a look at my account there. Um and based on that, see what you can create." >> Yeah, exactly. Like he >> he did it. He he looked at uh all the top uh performing videos using the Vid IQ MCP, which is like a way to view like outlier videos. And then he analyzed the thumbnails of them and then took your content and generated thumbnails for you. >> Okay, that was closer to it. I still didn't love it. And then I said, "The answer is I want you to look at the transcript and then based on the transcript and the the Vid IQ, we'll do it and I'll go through a couple of rounds." >> Um, but I like that there was there was no bounds. Do whatever you want with it. Okay. So, that's how you do fulfillment. And then finally, retention. How do I keep a customer once I get them on? I always have a call scheduled with every customer every, you know, one-on-one every every week actually. So, just getting up to speed of like, okay, here's what we delivered. You always want to have uh quantitative like outcomes of like, okay, this is how long this used to take. Here's how long it takes now. Here's this problem you had. Here's what you said you were struggling with. Like, look, did we did we solve it? Did we do that now? just create like evidence of the problems you're solving because you'll get to a point where you're solving so many different problems that it's like you need to just like be able to show for it as well and not just get kind of noised and drowned at drowned out. Um, so yeah, that's uh the biggest thing is just really just, you know, nurture the relationship. Like at the end of the day, businesses want to work with people they like and if you're good at communicating, you're you keep you you stick you stick to your word and you're solving these genuine problems. >> Let me be more specific about this because that's true. That's that's generally true for everything. One of the things that they're going to always want is more, right? If you could keep showing them more features, more wow, how did it do that? They're going to sign up. uh they're going to keep saying subscribe. What are some of the more features or the more wows that you can give them? >> It's there's always something there's always something new. So, for instance, um like right now with with Obsidian, like every customer, they all for some reason business executives, they all know about Obsidian. I don't know how like >> you're right. These freaking people who I thought had no idea that all this stuff was going on are showing me their Obsidian setups. >> Yeah, exactly. And then I'm like, okay, so they want they clearly want Obsidian with their with their agent. And so like now we do it for every agent no matter what. But it's like that's an example. There's always something. Okay, I want to use um you know the newest Grock model. Okay, let's change the model. Like there's always something like that that's new that's shiny that they want to adopt. And you know whether it's relevant to the problems they're solving or not. Okay. But um yeah, you just have to always be and also just hardening security all the time. You know, managing all their secrets and all. I don't know if I talked about Composio, but this is a platform we use to connect all of their tools, all of their connectors, manage all the the off and everything here in one platform. And sometimes things break. >> Oh, interesting. This is how you give your agent access to software. >> Exactly. With one connector to Composeio, you can connect to all these other tools that the agent will use. Um, and this is a hu I love this product because before this product, I had to actually like get the API keys for every single tool we wanted to give the agent and it was just a mess. Uh, but now with one connector, we can do all of that and we don't have to worry about security or anything like that. It's all managed. Um, and yeah, so I love Obsidian for that. I mean, sorry, Composio for that. >> Okay. All right. All this gets customers, gets them to keep coming on. And it's interesting to see that there's so many people who are reading up on what's going on with AI that they're ready to come to you and say, "I want to try this." I'm excited about that. Um, and if they haven't seen it, for you to introduce them would be exciting. All right, I got it. Um, and the website of course we'll link to for people can for people to go and check out orgo.ai. >> Cool. >> All right. Cool. By the way, now that you've seen this, I've got a whole video with incredible use cases for Hermes. It's going to be the next video right here.