Transcript · 71,441 chars
I think this is really exciting, and what I'm excited about is like I suspect we'll be able to take our phones. The phone will be motion tracked. You've got the beauty of all the stuff that C dance is capable of doing, and you're still able to get the exact shot you want, frame it exactly the way you want. >> That's crazy. >> The models are good enough. If you just give them hands, they will do stuff. Hence the name open claw and all this, right? You and Dan Shipper, all you guys have been like kind of talking about how Codex built y'all are, so I tried it um as like a general-purpose life operating system, and it's been fantastic. >> It's just so powerful. Today, I'm having a conversation with Belal Muhammad Sadou, a creator and founder who's on the forefront of generative AI, spatial computing, and 3D visual effects. And for all the different parts of his business, he uses AI agents. I asked him why he switched from open claw to Codex. We also talked about the differences he sees in GPT 5.6 and Claude Fable, Claude Code, and Codex's in-app browsers and what makes them so powerful, how coding agents create accurate visuals in 3D animations. also talked about how he vibe coded Palantir, got 2 million views on a YouTube video, and is turning it into a startup. Let's go. Belal Last time that we had a our hour-long I think every few months we like to catch up. We do an hour-long phone call. We talk about AI tools, AI agents. We talk about content creation, and basically everything going on in in your business and in my business. And in that phone call, you told me that you were open claw pilled, that you were using open claw. If I remember correctly, and I could be getting this wrong, so correct me if I'm wrong, you had one Mac Mini or MacBook Pro setup >> Mhm. >> and you were running multiple instances of open claw on one computer, and you used it through I think Telegram. And so um I think you had WhatsApp. You were using WhatsApp. And you were messaging this AI agent. You had all these different workflows set up and we were just going off talking about workflows. And so that was four or five months ago. >> Mhm. >> And yesterday, or a few days ago, you said, "Okay, you were right. I'm completely codex-pilled now. Uh just using the in-app browser is an actual game-changer. Not having to deal with the flakiness of Chrome attachments." But then, to be fair, you did go on to say, "But holy [ __ ] 5.6 soul is such a bad model for writing." And so I think I think all of this to say, over the last 6 months, the agent setups that we're all using are changing a lot. Can you talk about your setup before and then your agent setup now as a business owner and content creator? >> Absolutely. I mean, Riley, like most people at the start of the year, right? It was everyone was playing around with this thing called Open Claw. And as was I, and it's funny because at that time I was also courting Peter to come give a TED Talk at TED 2026. So there's a fun experience where I was like kind of doing my homework, if you will, and I was like I wasn't expecting it to like it as much as I did. And quite frankly, I think what the entire industry at that point realized is like, "Hey, the models are good enough. If you just give them hands, they will do stuff." Hence the name Open Claw and all this, right? And so my setup, yeah, exactly, you nailed it. I had a MacBook Pro, an old M1 Max, 64 gigs of unified memory. So still pretty beefy. Threw a bunch of this stuff on there and I wanted one place where all my like meeting transcripts would go into. It would automatically go look at my YouTube analytics and basically create like, you know, like a digest of how all my social platforms are doing and put it all in one place. Now, there's no reason I couldn't have done that previously, but the fact that I could just the fact that there was that router to like be able to message it from WhatsApp meant that when I was on those like, you know, hour-long calls or like walking around in Austin, I could start doing things that were useful on a computer itself. So, I probably had like a I would say at in retrospect an over-engineered setup. I had like six different agents. I had like based some of them around like different like personas of TV show characters that I liked. My my coding agent was like Carmack after the legendary John Carmack. I had a strategist that was based after Carter the Stargate SG1 character. I had like a spiritual advisor that would read my stuff and tell me like was I in flow like or was I not in flow today? What could I do better tomorrow? And kind of like, you know, dare I say a Deepak Chopra type character. And it was so fun to basically embody these characters themselves. Like, "Hey, go to 11 Labs. Like, find this voice. Like, train it. Cool." Suddenly, it can like send me voice notes. And yeah, that's my setup then and now. Like you and Dan Shipper, all you guys have been like kind of talking about how Codex built y'all are. So, I tried it. Um as like a general purpose life operating system. And it's been fantastic. So, I've connected it to absolutely everything. I love the fact that I can like remotely control sessions from the ChatGPT app itself. Like, I don't have to worry about setting up tunneling or anything else. And it's just great. I still use, I would say, Claude for a lot of my coding tasks. I still use Codex, too. Um but for the daily driver for knowledge work, if you will, right now it's just like Codex on a MacBook Pro. >> There's so many things that I want to ask you. I think firstly, yeah, I think so many people got really excited, maybe too excited about Open Claw. And that's when people tried to really over-engineer their Open Claw setup. And that's why you got a There was a ton of content being created. You need to create this second brain and connect it to Obsidian so you have all these ideas meshing together. >> And a dashboard to control it. And people are spending more time building the dashboard than doing stuff. >> All of their time on the dashboard. Like that was what people were doing is is they were just like stopped working and they started working on their open claw. I think ultimately it comes down to people are really excited about something almost like Jarvis, right? An a an agent with its own personality that you can talk to that can help you get things done, but ultimately a lot of people enjoy technology and it's really fun. And so I think what Anthropic is doing, what Open AI is doing, and I think what Cursor's going to end up doing and what Google will end up doing as well is they're trying to take all of the things that Open Claw did well, right? Which is basically fully controlling and connecting with the user's life and making it easily accessible. >> That's right. >> And I think the first company to actually do that well was Open AI when they released Codex. And it was kind of the first AI-powered super app, this AI agent tool that you can go to and it can basically just do everything that you would want to do as a normal knowledge worker. And then what they did is they combined ChatGPT and the Codex app into the new ChatGPT app and they've since it to GPT work, which is a whole separate side story. But what I think is incredibly interesting is I think they nailed kind of the big four things that I think are super useful. It's like obviously they have an a frontier agent that you can talk to. It can connect to all of your existing tools, right? Through plugins. You can set up automations, right? Which is like the cron jobs from >> Mhm. >> from >> Open Claw. >> Yep. >> And then also this in-app browser, which you recently said that you have been using the browser a lot because it's signed in to all of your existing tools that you were using on your browser like Google Chrome. Okay. So what I want to ask you is like why do you really like the browser? How have you been using it? >> I mean, it's just a little more convenient. I was initially skeptical, right? Like I saw your video where you're talking about like this is the future. And people are going to make apps that are intended to be nested inside of this type of a harness, right? I was like, all right, this is just this is Chromium. Like, what are we talking? Is it like is can it can it just be like that big of a game changer?" And the fact is like, especially when I'm on my laptop, right? Like, it's hard to multitask or whatever. If I'm in that context and I have a chat window, I can say stuff and it does things in the browser, it's amazing. Okay, I'm setting up an AV test for YouTube. I want it I want this thing to like periodically go up and just see like how is the CTR doing? How's the test progressing? Do we need to swap out any of the thumbnails and so forth? This was just like annoying manual process that I had to deal with. Now it's just freaking like I just say the thing, right? And it's like I I could even be on my phone, I just say the thing and it works on my computer predictably. I know it's going to work. There's going to be no issues like taking over my Chrome browser, anything like that. And then the part that it starts I feel like the companies haven't really focused on this yet is but it the browser sort of becomes a shared canvas for human and machine collaboration, right? Like, um you know, I used to work at Google, so I'm still like stuck on Google Docs. Like, I can't for the life of me get into Notion. And the fact that I can go into Docs and like this is the way I do my writing right now with the with Code access cuz it sucks at like actual prose is I'll put in detailed comments. It'll go read the comments and tell me a suggestion for how to fix it and then I implement the fix myself. And I get the fact that I can just do that very easily in one place is just super nice. And so I I could see this being far more useful where like, you know, a bunch of the mapping-related stuff that I do too is like if I want to visualize something on the map, it's really convenient to have my web app pulled in the browser and be like, "Hey, go search up this information, convert it into GeoJSON, and then just visualize it there." And I can do that all in one context without needing to change stuff. Like, I think that's really the power, right? >> 100% and I think what you described I think you you described it as kind of this um it's almost like a shared canvas. And so that's right. I I want to make this tangible here. So, this is how I prepared for the conversation here. I said, "Based on the conversation on text with Balaji Sedo." And I said, "Look through his chat or the text and recommend what I should ask him." And then it basically just had your little quotes in here. And then I just said, "Please add this in the Notion doc at the top and describe who he is, what he does, just in case that's for the intro." And I can very easily just hit open in browser. And so now I have Notion open inside Codex. Any app that I think will survive the agent era will make sure that their app can be used alongside agents. Notion is very ahead on this. They're actually far way further ahead than Google in terms of their Google Docs and making it controllable via API. Anything I could do inside this Notion doc, like please highlight the important things and like make the text blue in this document. Um anything that you think is important that I should include inside the Notion doc, just make changes via the API in this doc and then add a section at the end, but use the tabs functionality instead of bullets. And so I can just work alongside this document. >> the CLI or MCP to to do all these things basically? Okay, cool. >> There's a Notion plugin. And so that's I think where we're You know, a lot of people argue about CLI and MCP and I think I don't think it's It's not going to matter at all for knowledge workers. You don't even need to understand how it works. You're just going to use the plugin and it's up to Notion to decide what the best >> Sure. >> way to do it is from a technical perspective. But the point is I can ask the agent to do anything and it will update it here. >> That's nice. >> And this is still like a little bit slow. I don't I don't know if you notice this, but OpenAI is releasing their models on the Cerebrus chips or their technology that will make it significantly faster. And so I think this process at like 5x to 10x the speed is going to be just borderline Jarvis. I don't know what you think about that. >> Instant. I couldn't agree more. I mean like yeah, basically what you're describing you know, I I just don't use notions. All the other stuff is great. I mean one question I have is I can't wait for everyone keeps talking about model routing, right? And it's like surely these like proprietary harnesses have collected enough like traces of people doing stuff that they know which model to route which task to, right? Like if you're just highlighting a bunch of stuff, shouldn't it just like I wish there was a good like I believe Chat GPT had an auto mode, right? When the new like like maybe five or six months ago where it would try to route stuff and it was really terrible. So people would always max it out to the most the strongest model possible, but like I would love for this thing to just auto default to Terra and just go zip and do some of these kind of like inline changes, but when it really needs to use a giga brain to think about stuff like to handle that. That'll make a huge difference in the latency as well, I think. >> Yeah, 100% and I think if you were to go to it and on the non-paid plan I think the free plan has something called GPT Instant and it's much faster and I think they do some routing in that. I could be wrong, but I think I think that's kind of next cuz look like we've been waiting for like 60 seconds and oh, so it is. It's actively highlighting it right >> Yeah, so there you go. That's cool. Yeah. >> And and so like I just think this needs I mean yeah, it's it's pretty cool actually and it should add something at the bottom here. But there you go. It kind of like highlighted the keywords and then here you go. We have must ask follow-ups and clip targets. Okay, so I digress on this. So obviously you've been crushing it on YouTube recently and I think just the volume of high quality videos that you're putting out recently have have just like skyrocketed. I'm curious how are you using agents for content creation? >> Man, I think I'm using it on every part of the stack. Um I mean so like there are two kinds of videos I basically make on YouTube. I call them like there's like the mad science experiments where I'm like doing a bunch of vibe coding and like building a crazy prototype and then I go out and showcase it. And the other type is basically like I call it a frontier map, you know, kind of my channel's all about like mapping the frontier of creation and computing. Like what are the emerging technologies that, you know, connect the world of bits and atoms, the physical and the digital world, and are going to be very consequential for us and have like very dual-use capabilities. So these are more like I would say scripted video essay formats, like 10 to 15, sometimes 20 minutes in length. So they have a they have a slightly different um you know, kind of post-production and insert pre- to post-production process. But agents across the way, I mean like like most folks, I'm using it absolutely for like coding the damn thing, all right, like duh. But I also find it very useful when I'm trying to do the explainers. So I did a video recently called Iron Sights. So this is basically like using a bunch of computer vision models and the Meta Ray-Ban glasses and and phones to be like, "Hey, how can we like 3D track like both camera perspectives, fuse them together, and create essentially a spatial shot counter?" So it like measures every hit or miss. And this is like a a really complicated offline pipeline. And then when I was trying to come up with diagrams to explain to folks how we do this, I just did it in the same codebase with Claude Code in this case. And I was like, "Hey, I want to illustrate this point about how do we take like detections in 2D space and project them into 3D space?" And the fact that it had context of like the code that actually, you know, wrote, co-wrote, or whatever the right way to say this is to make the damn thing, made it so much easier to create like compelling visuals to explain the thing. Like I think if you forward ahead a little bit, I'll show you some of the workflow stuff. By the way, that's where it was like a a [ __ ] year ago and now it's just like >> Yeah. >> It's a >> Wait, am I getting closer? >> Yeah, yeah, there you go. You you can kind of see it. >> Yeah, so like stuff like this, right? It makes it so much easier for me to just like hey, like make the diagram for me, make it super easy for folks to explain. I wanted to explain the projection map. There's another clip that'll will in there that does that, too. So this idea of like the context of where where you build the thing can also help you curate and show the thing is like just really really powerful and I find myself using that a ton. If you go to my most recent video as well that I I just posted a couple days ago. So, this is this is a similar one where like I'm trying to explain uh these kind of complicated topics, right? I was like, well, I I want to explain like what does it mean for, you know, 5 GHz versus 60 GHz and you know, kind of creating visuals like this is super easy to do, but you can create an interactive visualization, too, right? Like and scrub through it and show folks how exactly does that work. So, like I love using uh these coding models to create these kind of I don't even know what to call them like infographic visuals, like whatever the heck you want to call them with 3.js and so forth. It's just it's super super powerful. So, here's a great example like, you know, people keep you know, people don't necessarily I just hit play keep let let it go. Yeah, people don't necessarily necessarily remember their physics class. So, just be able to create an actual visualization of like what do the waves look like? What does it look like when it's high frequency versus low frequency? Just makes it so much easier for folks to understand. And like that's something you can't really do with like all the video generation models out there cuz it's going to be like completely inaccurate or just a very like stylized representation. So, I love love love using 3.js and coding models as B-roll uh to generate B-roll for my videos. >> And it it 100% makes sense for your style of content. I mean, you talk about 3D mapping and these these are you know, it requires a physics engine. All right, I don't know if I'm saying that correctly, but like it it's a physics engine or whatever. Yeah. Like a game engine physics engine so that you can actually understand like waves. Where if you tried to run this through C dance 2.5 or whatever the new one that came out, it might look really cool, but it's not going to be to scale or it it's not going to accurately represent your idea. My videos, it's not as scientific, right? I I I have a a very specific workflow where if I'm doing an explainer video and it's like the 14 things that you need to understand like an AI will generate all of those transition screens for me and it's like a very clean animation. It's directly on brand, you know, and that's why things like remotion and hyperframes which I don't know if you've used these are more 2D stuff, but we're also reaching a point with AI where it's it's understanding of 3D is getting significantly better. If you go to Andrej Karpathy's latest tweet. >> Oh, yeah. I saw that. >> We've kind of left the era of the pelican riding a bike and I think it's really interesting that he's like we're starting to leave the territory where you test an LLM by creating an SVG of a pelican on a bicycle. And so he basically put in he put in the I'm not going to play the audio, but there's also audio playing at the same time here which is like 11 labs and other people have been posting it where it uses 11 labs for music as well. So it'll literally create a 3D world using 3js and it will have the transcript playing in the background and so now that's how we're measuring models. You give it $10 create the first scene of the Hobbit and you remember in 20 you know, 2023 the first time the spaghetti test came out with Will Smith. Remember it was like all messed up. His arm was going through his body. It looked horrible and now if you ask for Will Smith eating spaghetti test, it will be an exact replica of Will Smith eating spaghetti and you will have to squint to see the difference. And so this is a question to you. Do you think in the next 2 years when you use the same prompt, do you think it'll almost look like a movie where it'll literally be able to use like a game engine to create a not just a video like seedance would, but a 3D representation that might actually be like a really good movie. >> Oof. Man, I mean I've been trying them all my I've been trying a bunch of these tests, right? Like I So, I'm using foul and trying to come up with a harness that can do 5 to 10 minute narrative content. That's sort of the bar that I'm trying to set. That has like the narration element to it. It comes up with like really nice aerial B-roll selections and puts it together. And it's pretty compelling. I think it's like sort of reached the point where it's like sort of like low-end like docu-style content it certainly can do. Is it going to be like something that just like blows our socks off? Dude, I I mean, I I think it's going to come down to like the the quality of the story that you're telling. And this is why what I find interesting is like again, these models are so good at the execution bits, but in terms of coming with prose that's like fun to listen to. I mean, it's just like I think that's where the human element comes in. So, will like an individual make like feature-length content that's like really compelling to watch 100%? Will it autonomously do so from a prompt that isn't like just over fitting to like a you know, handful of scenarios that like the developers like trained on? Yeah, like I don't know I don't know about that. But dude, I mean like when you look at that convergence of like the sort of explicit 3D and the game engine approach, I'm very excited about this convergence of sort of like explicit 3D representations and sort of like more implicit like kind of like just video generation. Whether it's auto regressive kind of like Genie or or otherwise, right? It's like this is cool to me cuz it's like you can take real-world imagery, then put characters in it and like still have that interactivity that you would expect from a game engine, but of course, you're controlling this auto regressive like real-time video generator that's just generating the next frame for you. I think this is really exciting. And what I'm excited about is like I suspect we'll be able to take our phones. The phone will be motion tracked, and you'll be able to basically just like, you know, got you basically direct your talent on the set. You're like freaking James Cameron in a basement. You've got the beauty of like a full like all the stuff that C dance is capable of doing and you're still able to get the exact shot you want frame it exactly the way you want. That's what I'm super excited about and like look I you're totally right like I when I one of the first in terms of like the prompts I love to try is like I love to try doing this sort of like omniscient city prompt with all the video models. And I've got my one from like Claude like a year ago. It's pretty good but this one I mean like the ability to zero shot and one shot things has just gotten drastically drastically better. So like already you can take something like this and then throw it into a diffusion model and reskin it. So this is sort of like your wireframe and storyboard and you can do some very very compelling things that way. So I'm I'm super excited about all of this stuff. >> Do you have the the the video that you posted? I re I reposted it and got a million views on my repost. I think I said OMG what? And it was the video in Austin. You took an image and you drew a path of a drone shot. Was that you? Yeah, that's the one. >> It Could you find that? >> Yes, yes, yes. I inadvertently ended up starting a freaking trend. So it started off This was This is the origin story is like I had this like 3D reconstruction of the Lodi Gardens in New Delhi and I was curious to see like if I just gave the model this image, right? And this actual trajectory I took could the model approximate that first-person perspective down the path? And it did a really good job. Like I was kind of shocked. So then after that I was like uh what if I just take an Earth screenshot draw like a convoluted path down it and they put some detail into it, right here let me mute this. >> So just to get this straight. So you took you took a Google Earth shot. So that's the bottom one is an image. The bottom one is an image and then you basically drew a line over the image and then gave the new image which was just the image plus the line, to a video model. Which video model? >> Omni. And so like Omni and Seedance is really good at this, too. It's funny like Omni is like supposed to be omnimodal, right? Like uh Gemini and Google are super pilled on like multimodal in and out, right? So it's trained on a bunch of these modalities and it's very good at reasoning about like these kind of nuanced spatial details. I would say even I don't use Gemini for much, but when I have to do spatial reasoning tasks, I still end up going to the Gemini class of models. So Omni basically, yeah, you scribble this thing on and then you say, "Hey, please like imagine the first-person perspective traversing the draw line that I just drew." And like you end up getting something like this and since it's Omni, you can do conversational video editing. You just tell it in the next pass to remove the red line. And what I was impressed with, I mean like used to live in Austin, like it's it's not a, you know, I I call it it's a plausible reconstruction of Austin. It's not a factual one. It's not doing like retrieval augmented generation where it's like pulling in the next right image, but holy [ __ ] off of one image, it's doing this. It's like >> So you can see you can see the apartment that I lived at in Austin from this image. And and yeah, and I I you know, it's like I've walked I walked that loop uh probably three times four three four times a week and it is, like you said, plausible. It's not exact because it probably doesn't have enough data for that, but I think if you were to give it more images, maybe if you can do that. I I think you can give it a bunch of images, right? Um >> You can. It still doesn't There's a I I'd I'd be happy to talk about this like is like there's there's a way to do like spatial rag that would make it perfect. >> Um all right, let's What do you mean by this? What is rag? >> So like before we get to spatial rag, I mean like this thing escalated so crazy, right? People started making stuff like this. And these kind of videos blew up, right? Like this is Ilaris is using Seedance in this case. So you can use these other models as well. But everyone fixated on the broom being the other way, You know, everyone's like, "Oh my god, but the broom's the other way." Like it's like hold up. We can now exert fine-grain control over generations, which was the problem everyone complained about. So like, of course somebody's going to build a nice tool and harness around this. And and and a lot of companies are. So, back to spatial rag. There's this really cool paper called Soul World Model. See, the idea is like, okay, you have Street View panos, right, for a city or whatever, or equivalent panoramic imagery, Apple, whoever. What you can do is basically as you're going along, let me find the right visual here. Um this is the perfect one. So if you look at that, you're basically as you're going along, you just load in the next nearest pano and use that to condition the generation. And if you do that, you can have very long trajectories going through an entire city and it'll stay pretty faithful. And then of course, what you can do is like, you know, reskin reality on demand. Like throw a freaking, you know, Godzilla in there. Like change the weather and time of day. Do whatever the hell it is that you want to do. And this is using like an open-source model. If you use some of these proprietary models, I guarantee you Google has to do this. If they if they do I've like feature requested this a gazillion times. But like, this is I think the future of like if you want to create generations that are anchored in the real world, you'll go and do that capture itself and then they'll you use a technique like spatial rag to just condition it. So, the the camera just needs some sense of where in 3D space is it is so that it knows which pano or image to load in. >> I see. So this is a clear way for Google to just take all of the data that they have with Google Earth and turn it into a giant video game {slash} movie simulator. I don't even know what you would call it. >> Dare I call it the Dare we call it the Holodeck? You know, I feel like Robert Zemeckis going to pop out if we say the Holodeck. [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. That is really crazy. My [clears throat] first thought is yeah, I mean I think a lot of companies are going to use this for advertising. You know, I I think I've already seen some companies do it in a way that people can't even detect that it is AI. Um, have you >> Have you seen any companies use this technology for advertising yet or is it super new? >> they they all are and it's like I don't know how many of them are like actually like, you know, kind of openly talking about it, right? Like I think the place where I see AI gen content the most is like UGC. Like I don't know if you agree with me or not. That's where it's like overt almost. And I don't know >> That's where it's offensive. It's almost offensive with when you notice it in a UGC. You're like, ah, come on. What are we doing here? >> That's true and it's like unfortunately whenever people try to do like the Do you remember the Coca-Cola Christmas commercial that Coca-Cola did? It just gets roasted like so badly that I'm like I don't know if people are going to be like overt about when whenever they use it and it's like Yeah, at least that's what I've noticed. When I go to these like VFX conferences like FMX, everyone's like online it seems like nobody's using this stuff. And then you go to these conferences and people are like, yeah, we're totally using it. Just legal told us we can't talk about it. It's like, okay, great. >> [laughter] >> I also don't think it's like fully there for final pixels just yet, you know? It's like um, it certainly can be for a lot of places. Like so personally what I've been enjoying doing is if I go over here is like for narrative experiences like this, I've really enjoyed creating uh, AI gen B-roll. So this is all VO uh, for the opening sequence. If I'm doing like a cold open about recreating like something that happened for like that I read a book on or something, it's so much fun to be able to just like make these kind of experiences. Like and this is stuff that like no YouTuber would have had the time to go do this otherwise, right? And it's like a way to pull people into the story and like talk about like what happened and like what the technology was and kind of anchor them in that like time and era and it again, may not be like factual one-to-one, but it's a pretty damn good plausible like reconstruction or retelling of uh you know certain events and kind of technologies. >> 100% with both video generation and things like remotion hyperframes and those like graphics is is it's a tool of storytelling and I think the best way to do it is as B-roll. Like as you say something, you can get the right imagery to pop up at the same time, which is basically what a movie is or any type of visual storytelling. >> Um and you're right, you know, 10 years ago there were YouTubers creating these like motion graphics had really high-quality B-roll, but it was YouTubers who had a massive business and they were able to invest a $10,000 for a video. I know a lot of YouTubers who are spending 10 10 20 up to 100k per video because and then you have to know that you're going to get an ROI on it. Well, now anybody can create a video like that um which which is raising the bar for the VFX YouTubers. I have noticed that even the high I think um Abrams Cleo Abrams uh she's great like she has amazing motion graphics and they have like a full team many people working on it and so I think we're seeing the bar raised in terms of like the quality on YouTube, which is really fun to see. >> Man, and it's a funny story like when when you and I probably first met in Austin probably circa 2023 or 2024 or something at 1618, I think or >> That's the Asian restaurant >> you're like going to, right? There's one near downtown. >> 1618 Asian Fusion. Yes, yes, I remember. >> Yeah, and yeah, like I think a lot of people may not know this, but like it kind of the way the way I got my start was like basically making short-form TikTok videos. And like I you know, this is like what I used to do for many many years. >> And you were doing this while you were at Google, right? >> Yeah, yeah, this was like my I was a product manager at Google and I didn't want to lose touch with the skill. So, it's like, "Oh, I want to like something that I can tackle over the weekend." I used to love After Effects, 3ds Max, Maya, using AR VR tools. I used to love making all these like spooky monsters, aliens, robot type videos. And like some of them did really, really crazy well, right? Like but ever since like video models came out, you can see literally as video models get better, my desire to like make these short-form pieces just goes down. And instead I've been taking that like superpowered new found superpowers, whatever you want to call it, to instead make long-form content that was super challenging and is getting easier. But I've got a question for you. Like the the hardest challenge I have, like I mentioned, you know, I've got these two kinds of videos. One is like the mad science experiments. That's easy. I just go I can just riff. I'm on a green screen screen sharing. For the scripted content, like one of the issues I run into is like working with my video editors, right? Like if I do a take like three different ways of the same thing. Like I'm stuck in like frame IO hell of like telling the editors, "No, no, no. I said the same thing I just tried to say it slightly differently here." Have you found something that can do like really good like sort of timeline-based edits, not just based crudely on the transcript, but like actually does good edits? Like I've tried Descript, I've tried the Remotion stuff, I've tried a bunch of the YC apps and like nothing has helped me go from like a 40-minute video with a with an outline or a script I provided to like a 15-minute cut down. Like kind of um do do do do you have a workflow for stuff like that? >> So, right now I use Descript. And I use Descript strictly I I use Descript for cutting, but you like you said, it's mostly for my green screen style content because once we have the final one, it's very easy to just remove parts of the video. It's once you get to having multiple layers on top of each other and trying to remove chunks, like it gets super messy. And I think this is one of the biggest problems right now in the whole like video creation pipeline, especially with massive files because it's like hard to move things around. Like, if you have B-roll files that amount to 100 GB, and you have these like super uh I guess complex timelines. This is tough, and I've talked to 10 to 15 plus really good creators. They have not found a solution. There are a lot of companies claiming to be trying this, but a lot of those companies coming out of YC are people who don't do video editing. You know, a lot of these startups are created by people who like think it's a good idea, but they don't know the true pain of like a creative and how like they have a very specific way they want to they want to create something really high quality, and usually it just ends up being like there's no color grading, it just throws things on the screen when you say stuff, and it's it's kind of like um a hodgepodge right now. I No one's created a good AI video editing workflow. And so, the way that I do it is like you said, I use Frame.io and Descript, and I just do a lot of comments, and there's a lot of back and forth with my human video editor. >> So, for episodes like this that I imagine are anywhere from like 1 to 3 hours of tape you end up with, how do you What's the process for you to whittle those down to like what makes it into the final cut? Like, do you do a a pass manually yourself? Like, does your editor kind of have intuition for those type of things? How does that work? >> In my Notion, I have documentation, and there are like things that they should look out for. So, they read it every time they edit the video. They say, "Remove those things." And they just do a first pass, which is like remove the time where blah blah blah he's pulling up something on his screen share, it takes a little bit longer, cut that down. But, what I'm trying to do and is I'm trying to reduce the complexity of video editing in my videos. And like I told you before this, like I'm genuinely trying to just create fun conversations and remove a lot of that. And then, at the end of the video, I'll have Fable analyze the transcript, and it'll say, "Hey, look for areas where we could add visuals and I think maybe three or four times throughout this episode when you're describing something, there will be a full screen graphic overlay over it, especially in the first 10 minutes. >> Mhm. >> Uh I think it's really important to captivate Yeah, it's really important to captivate them to captivate the audience to know that like you're serious about this video, right? Like oh, he's taking the time to make his ideas more clear. I'm going to continue watching this and kind of in the back half of the video they've emotionally they're they're in it. Right now, I guess right now in the video we're probably 30 minutes into the final cut right now. If you're with us right now, you're you're probably >> The true G's. >> interested in something. You're the true G's. You're You're You're You're stuck around for us. So, I don't think it's super important. I think people would rather you get it out quicker than spend an extra few days, you know, adding B-roll throughout the entire video. >> Yeah, yeah. I have for conversational stuff it needs to be it needs to be and there there is a very much an unediting trend that you're seeing happening on YouTube, too, right? Where it's like like I I keep seeing that this like a grandpa who's like smoking a cigar like in in the in the field and there is a whole [ __ ] maxing movement that's happening, too. Like it's kind of people don't want the Mr. Beast over retention editing ding ding ding ding ding like third 30 things to capture attention. There is like a sweet spot which is why I've actually really enjoyed long-form content cuz it's fun to see and and though I will say this is where Codec going back to Codec is so cool. I am learning things about YouTube analytics that I have would have never learned otherwise. It's it's crazy how much they actually expose like in terms of figuring out how your content's in the the retention curves are so useful and just to be able to see AVD like Yeah, but there's so much stuff that you can go into like completion rates and all this crazy stuff that like is it's like I I'm just usually like hey, go you I've made a skill that's like the best of Colin and Samir and Patty Galloway and Daryl Eves kind of mushed into one and it's it's glorious. >> You brought up connecting Codec or any agent to YouTube analytics. So, YouTube has an API. It's kind of annoying to set up. I don't know does Codex have an official integration yet or do you have to like set up the API? >> I don't know, but I went through the pain of turning on the things in cloud and yeah, I I had to go through the whole process. Yeah. >> Yeah, I hope you weren't the guy who made it so complex at Google. Um, but basically all of the data that YouTubers can see, um, all of the data that YouTubers can see like your retention curves, the click-through rates for every single one of your videos, you could just give that access to Codex. And I think before this video you said something you said something that like you're like AB test it. I don't even want to see it. Like it's so it's so nice to not have to click through toggles. I think that is kind of >> Yeah. >> one of my it seems boring, but like one of my biggest dreams of of AI or at least my the ideal way of me using a computer is never going to an app again. I just want to talk to my my chatbot. It can go off and do all of that stuff. Be like, "Okay, I want you to analyze the last video. How can we make it better? What was the retention? What was this?" And it just shows up. And if you want that to happen again, you just set an automation. You're like, "Okay, every time I get on my computer or every morning at 9:00 a.m. create a report for any new YouTube videos that get created." >> Yeah. >> And it shows you that data in the exact way that you want it. And I think that's kind of it's just so powerful. >> Well, it's funny you mentioned Fable, right? It's like it's funny I'm I treat Fable the same way. Like when I want like the, you know, the artistic high-quality decisions, I'm like, "Okay, this is a this is a Fable task." When I'm like, "Okay, this is a well-understood thing or I want some somebody to go find the nitty-gritties." I'm like, "Codex." And it it really has started to to your point about being agent native in the show itself. It's like it feels like they're members of the team. It really does feel like that. And so, I had this experience where like, you know, it's like it's it feels like I'm texting a producer basically. To your point about thumbnails, like if if folks aren't like active YouTube creators, one of the worst things that happens as a creator is you go upload your video and YouTube greets you with a glorious one X out of 10 ranking right as the video goes up. And it's comparing your video performance to the last 10 videos you've uploaded, you know, basically minute by minute, hour by hour. And it is the ultimate slot machine, like in the in the sense that like if you get a one on 10, you get these little fireworks and you're feeling like a champ. And if not, you're sitting there feverishly going back every half an hour refreshing to see how it's doing. And now that I have Codex driving this part, to your point about AB test, I'm not tempted to do that anymore. I'm like, how's it going? Okay, this is what it looks like. Decision made. I don't want to touch it, see it, and accidentally get sucked down the rabbit hole of this like, you know, immaculately designed dashboard. >> I think that is This is something I've been talking about since 2023 about kind of my dream with Siri. I've been talking about this for a long time. You know, so much of tech is dark patterns. You know, just Instagram, every single social media platform is an algorithm that wants you on their app. And I think I think the only way to really counteract that algorithm is to create a completely new operating system that has your own algorithm that's made for you. You know, and so like that's kind of what you're describing. It's an algorithm or or this kind of layer of all this data that you want. Like you want to be able to go on Instagram to find something without getting distracted for an hour. You want to be able to use your computer in a way that's like very human-centric. And I think the way that this is going to be solved is through an AI chatbot that you can trust. And that's why I never trust a free chatbot because a free chatbot is always going to be incentivized to keep you talking to the chatbot for as long as possible. They need to find other ways to um other ways to uh monetize. And so, what you want is an AI system that you can go to that is like mediates your experience with all these different apps, so you don't get sucked into these negative dark patterns, and it and it has access to all the data, so it can tell you how you can make your life better, how you can make your content better, how you can make your business better. And we use that in our startup. Like we have all of our data is accessible via AI agents. There isn't a part of our business where you can't go in and analyze every part of your business. And since we set up scrape creators, which is an API, I can pull all of our social media data from any platform, and including the videos and analyze all of the videos and such. And so, I think we're entering this new world of of kind of two things. Like one is just like the AI native person, where they anything that involves tech, they'll first go to their AI, and it can do things on their behalf and show them what they need to show. And then the AI native business, which is anything you might need for your business, anyone on the team can talk to an agent, and they can get the correct answer back, which I think is the next level for creator businesses, as well. I I want to I want to run something by you real quick. So, I think a lot of the personal workflows that you have I I don't know how big is your like editing team off like I I don't know how you you have like contractors that you work with for editing. >> like just two editors. Yeah, one motion guy, one editor, yeah. >> And did do they work together? Are they an agency, or do they work together? Okay. >> They're basically a little agency, yeah. >> Cool. One thing that would be cool is like shared skills, and I think Claude Anthropic is trying to go in this direction with Claude Tag. Have you tried Claude Tag yet? Do you know what that is? >> I I know what it is, and like that seems like the sort of more enterprise acceptable version of what Buzz is trying to do, right? Cuz most companies aren't going to move off of Slack, but they'll try the beta for Claude Tag. This idea that like you've got an agent that has provisioned access to every aspect of your company is super powerful. Yeah, and like in in my in my world it's just like Codex at the moment, but it's like I could not agree like that if you can have conversations, have agents with contacts, and start assigning tasks all in again like a sort of a shared canvas for collaboration, I think there's like so much potential. >> Yes. And like uh you know, as we I've built out my team, the agents inside Slack are becoming much more like useful, right? Because I want anyone on my team to be able to use the skills that I use. And that that takes a lot of communication from me beforehand. But you did bring up Buzz, so I do want to talk about Buzz. You want to talk about Buzz a little bit? I I you said you're not convinced about Buzz. >> No, no, no. I just need to look into it more. I mean like I liked it. I saw your last video about this, right? Like whatever a couple days ago that it came out. I think it seems really cool. It feels like it has all these aspects of like Open Claw that was appealing where, you know, I would when like when I made the first like world view and God's eye view stuff, it was all Open Claw is the harness derived, which I guess is just Pi driving Codex and Claude code. And it was probably token inefficient, but it was so much fun for me to just be able to like say drop voice notes and like sit in the 2E and like say stuff that like, you know, I wanted the benefit of that, but in like a more natural intuitive interface. And it feels like Buzz does exactly that with ACP, right? You just connect all your different agents to it, and suddenly this thing can be that hub where you can have Claude and Codex and insert other AI harnesses like all talking to each other. So, that that's super exciting. I I definitely want to Do you would you say that it it's like fun enough to like is it good enough to just like replace Slack wholesale and just move over? >> No. Um I I again, remember we talked about Open Claw about how a lot of it wasn't necessarily immediately productive to um to kind of mess with it, but like through the process of testing the new technology, you learned a lot. >> a ton. >> You learn a ton, you learn about connections, you learn about the capabilities of agents. And I think that's what this is for me. This >> Mhm. >> platform is seems to be like an early adopter platform in the sense that I don't see teams switching over to this anytime soon. I I could be wrong because I think it has everything they it might need to It's just too complicated. What I think right now we're entering the next frontier in this agent adoption, right? I think the first half of I guess I guess we're 7 months through 2026. I think the last 7-8 months has been around personal agents. Open Claw was a very personal agent. It was a single agent that you gave a computer that you could message through a channel. Right? And then from there we saw, you know, a lot more and even before that people were using Claude code, which is an agent running on their computer, and then Codex, and then Hermes agent, for example. It's kind of this personal revolution. I think >> Mhm. >> what Buzz signifies to me is kind of this transition into a team of agents. What Claude Tag represents is like how do you use agents as a group of people? How do you create a company second brain? Whether it's >> Mhm. >> whether it's for your team of three or a team of 10 or a team of a thousand. The last episode I did was with Guillermo Rauch. That's coming out in a few a few days at Perplexity. He they have a V agent that their whole company interacts with. And this agent gets smarter. They have a whole team managing this agent because it helps them so much. And so I think that's the era we're moving into right now is like how do you put agents into teams? The reason Buzz is interesting is >> Sick. >> Buzz can create You know all those like if you have a Slack and you add more people, you need to have the admin add people. You need to create shared channels and you need to give proper permissions and you're just going through the toggle. Well, Buzz was created so that an agent can do all of that. So like I could ask any of my agents. And so this allows you to add any harness. So I can add the Codex harness, I have the Claude code harness, I can add cursor, and the default model with cursor is Grok. And I can just at mention all of them, and they'll actually collaborate. Buzz did a great job with their system prompt so that they actually collaborate in a way that like I'll come back 15 minutes later and they'll have a good conversation. And then Codex will be like, "Okay, based on all the information I have, I will start on this project." And so seeing agents work together is such an interesting >> In terms of keeping each other informed, is the chat do they just read the text and figure out the right state of what's do like basically status of everything in the chat itself? Does that end up you know, making it so like so like what stops like a race condition of both run off and try doing a thing or something like this? >> So, I I I said this in the Buzz video. I said, "I've tried this before and it does create usually this race condition where they talk for way too long, context gets super clouded." Buzz doesn't do that. So there's basically like a From the way that I understand it, there's like another Buzz wide system prompt that gets injected every time they interact. And for whatever however they set that up, I haven't analyzed how they set it up, they don't do that. It'll usually be like one or two interactions. I'll be like, "Hey, discuss it with Claude code." And then I'll be interacting with Claude, right? Claude is Fable by default. So I can message Claude and I can say hi, and this is this is literally and then they'll like at they'll like show the little uh emoji. And then you can see which one's working. You can click on their activity, you can see that it's working at all times. And then once it responds, it'll respond. Um and I'll at mention Claude, and I'll be like, "Hey." And I'll be like deep in a conversation. And then you can just see that's like "Hey, uh what are we working on?" >> These chats persist in your Claude code locally, right? As well. >> Yes. Yes. >> Right? >> Yes. So it's basically just using Claude code under the hood. In fact, if I were to say like I can and Claude code um, ask Codex about what I talked about today in the Codex app. And so, this is using Mhm. And I can I don't know. Maybe I need to mention Codex. Actually, I don't think so. Cuz here it says it's mentioning it. And it can mention any of the other agents, and it can ask Codex. And so, oftentimes I'll be deep in a chat session with Fable, and I'll be building something, I'll be coding something, and I'll ask say like, "Hey, Codex has a skill that allows me to do do this thing. Can you ask Codex for that skill, and then use it and do it properly?" Or I'll say, "Hey, can you just ask Codex to do this one thing for me?" And because it's all in one shared workspace, they just pass context back and forth to each other, which >> that. >> Because you said you use Claude for a lot of things that are And I agree with you when you said like, "I think that Claude is way better at creating like documents, presentations, and then just front-end design design sense in general." Um And so, you probably have different skills on Claude Code than you do Codex, correct? >> That's right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So now, you're in this shared workspace where you can almost like have them If Claude Code doesn't have a skill, you it'll you can probably just tell Claude Code that whenever you don't have a skill, ask Codex if he has it. And then maybe it can use that skill. And so, it's not super refined, but like you can kind of see where this whole trajectory is going. And you can kind of do this in Slack with And a lot of not a lot of people know this, but OpenAI released what's called workspace agents, which you can now add to Slack. So, it's very much like Claude tag, except it's it's almost like a GPT work agent that runs in the cloud, that has all these different skills that you can give it that can can connect to all the plugins your Codex can. And you can give it a personality, and you can let your whole team message it, which is which is really cool. So >> I'm going to try this out. Yeah. >> Yeah, based on everything I said here, like do you think this would be useful for your workflow, like using it with the team? >> I mean, like this has many of the fun aspects of what I was doing in WhatsApp, like group chats. I had this thread called the council, like many people, with all the agents, right? And then when I'd be thinking about a new idea, I'd like to see it attacked from different perspectives with different models weighing in with their own nuances. And so, like just to be able to do that all in one place, but also have it multiplayer with other folks, too, is really cool. Um yeah, like this has in many ways it has a lot of that charm that like like those magical moments that like early open claw kind of gave you if you're in like a big Telegram thread with your agents and somebody else or, you know, uh what have you. And it's it's so fun to collaboratively prompt these systems, too. It's like this new form of like pair programming, like you're kind of like the in a sense the agents are doing the work, but the fact that you can like collaboratively do this. I'm already having some experience we're doing this with Slack. Um like with with our own agents, like what is it? A GLM and Kimmy. And it's like a code review agent. It's like a lot of fun. >> Yeah. Uh it is it is just fun. And I think we're in the early stages. So, this is probably like January of open claw when people, you know, some people were using it, but like no one shared anything that was like quite useful yet. And so, I think the team of agents is going to be kind of the second half of this year. Okay, so before I let you go, I want to talk about your viral YouTube video. You had that viral project that you created. It got 2 million views. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? >> Hell yeah. I mean, that was an interesting experience. It In many ways it wouldn't have happened if not for open claw. Um yeah, kind of kind of the origin story is basically like it started off with this tweet. Basically, I was playing around with Gemini 3.1. And as I mentioned, Gemini's much better at spatial reasoning than Claude 4.6. And, you know, for those that don't know, I spent, you know, a decade in tech mostly at Google working on like geospatial 3D mapping. And one of the things I worked on was like photogrammetry. How do you create this 3D model of the world and put it out there with like 3D tiles? How do you do visual positioning and so forth? But it's like a static rendition of reality. And I got into vibe coding. I was using Open Cloud at the time as the harness that was driving perhaps very token inefficiently, um, you know, these these different systems. And basically the idea I had is like, well, I want to paint the world with information. And I went down this like crazy rabbit hole of like, well, what kind of information is there to paint on top of the world? And went deep into open-source intelligence. I knew something about like the few layers available, but as I went deeper with agents, it was like there was so much more out there. And it turned out all the CCTV cameras in Austin are actually open. Like you get an image once every 5 minutes and there's some very interesting things you can do with that. So I made this initial prototype, thought not much of it, went to sleep, and I woke up to it trending. Like men and all these folks were like like tweeting about it like like oh, this guy like vibe coded Palantir. Now, it's obviously very different than Palantir to be clear. But for whatever reason, Joe Lonsdale, one of the co-founders of Palantir, goes on TVPN and talks about it and basically says like, "No, no, no, no, like proprietary data fusion. This isn't like only low-end SaaS is at risk." And so like the next week happens and I'm like, "Ooh, like there's a war breaking out." And it was kind of funny. Like literally, so for this video over here, um, I was literally sitting on I was literally sitting on my like couch watching CNN and the news is going down. And I realized, "Holy crap, I've created the exact right infrastructure to basically store all these OSINT signals that you like satellite tracking, plane tracking, vessel tracking, all the social media feeds in and around area, be able to geocode them and visualize them." And I created this like 4D reconstruction of the the 24 hours of epic fury. And then after this, I did a follow-on with, you know, tracking the Strait of Hormuz and a bunch of other things around it. So, what it made me realize is that like honestly, there is no such thing as like a audit trail for physical reality. If you want to go get this information, you got to go to like seven or eight different tabs, be a geospatial expert to be able to fuse all this stuff together. So, basically what I've been doing is like experiments that take everything from space to ground, including the recent stuff you're seeing with like meta glasses, phones, and so forth. How do you put this all into a scrubbable 4D globe? So, that's basically what I'm going about building. Um it's really cool. I got a co-founder now, um like really awesome CTO, worked with him at Google, former Nvidia, and we're building something new. So, I'm excited to share more on that. >> you're going from vibe coding Palantir to you now have a CTO who can actually just code Palantir. >> Well, you know, I don't know if it's like uh Palantir per se. I think there's plenty of uh the way I'd put it is like a publicly legible Palantir. Like I think Palantir is really interesting and powerful to if you have proprietary data sets, you know, to make sense of what's happening, you know, if you're an institution, for example, uh you're or a big enterprise. What I'm really excited about is taking open and commercial data, and I cannot tell you how insane the conversations have been over the last few months. Like journalists are interested in this stuff, activists are interested in this stuff, defense primes are interested in this stuff, defense tech startups are interested in this stuff, the Department of War reached out. And it was like this thing where like it was this crazy thing where it's like the same thing appeals to sort of both sides of the aisle, and it tells me that there's something unique here, which is like and to me, I boil it down to really like how do you build a window through which you see the world where it's not like three dots on a map and like four people on a news channel talking about it, but you can get as close to making sense of it yourself. But given I'm a geospatial and 3D person and so is my co-founder like we're really approaching it from like a 3D first perspective. You know, you could build like a Bloomberg terminal for example. That's kind of cool and and and has its place, but really this is about how do you take all the sensor data in the world that's like you know publicly available or commercially available because let me tell you there is so much crazy data that's commercially available including like satellite providers that are doing cool stuff, but people paying like fisheries, you know, like basically hey, we'll put a Starlink on your fishery so they can start collecting AIS data for vessel tracking data in and around. And so yeah, build the window through which you see the world and create an audit trail for physical reality. I'm going to open source the original project later this month. So that feels more like a I would call it like a like sort of think of it like a like a spy simulator in your browser. That feels like you're in in CENTCOM like with a dashboard pulled up. And by the way, there's a lot of people that just want to throw this stuff on like a massive window and like you know, just like pop two Zins and like drink an energy drink and just monitor the situation. That's cool and so that's what this open source tool is basically all about. It's like a spy simulator. It feels it has those like spy thriller aesthetics, but it's underpinned by real data and I'm particularly trying to focus on like finding the cheapest APIs possible for the open source release so folks can have a really good experience. And then following that will be a commercial product. So V1, the community voted on this. V1's going to be open source. V2 and onwards to truly scrub the globe that there's a lot of expensive data involved and a lot of computation involved to get like 30 plus layers to work nicely on a 3D globe. >> The way that you did this is so cool because correct me if I'm wrong, you probably didn't manually go look for all of these data sources. You probably had your agent go and and try to find a lot of this data, right? When you first vibe coded it with open clock? >> Hell yeah. It was literally like go do some deep researches on like what is actually out there. Let's go figure out every single API, what's open, what's not. And the fact that I could just do this like sending voice notes or like doing voice dictation, it's like I had my buddies from like Google Maps hit me up. I was like, "Dude, you did this in a freaking weekend?" Like that >> Dude. >> And it spawned so many people creating cool similar things. >> This origin story is insane. Right? You got open claw to create a little 3D simulator that uses real data, that it went out and found the data. And then you were just having fun. You created this project, you threw it on Twitter, you made a YouTube video. And then I'm guessing when you say the community decided, a lot of that community was formed through the YouTube video, I'm guessing. Like that's where people >> YouTube and Twitter have been definitely been the two. But dude, it's like people reposted it on Reddit. It that thing went so it it like was kind of beyond my wildest imagine. I've had stuff go viral in the past before, but it felt like this was like one of those things where people talk about like PMF, like product market fit. It's like people are like not like, "Ooh, this is cool. How do I build it?" People are like, "I want access to this right now. Where do I swipe my credit card?" Like that was the reaction. >> Con- >> And >> content audience fit is what I call it. But like yeah. And I I think I think that's first of all that's just like the right way to do business now is to just like create a prototype, make content on it, and if I mean this is like the best possible case. I mean I I'm sure you realize that going viral for a long form video is so much better and so much more powerful than going like viral on TikTok or something like that because >> Or even X, yeah. >> Or even X because someone spent, you know, 10 minutes watching your video, and then now they're you probably have thousands and thousands of comments, people talking about like, "Oh, you should add this. You should add this." And so I think what a cool story. I mean you've truly vibe coded a prototype, and now you're you're doing it. And so yeah, I guess what does that look like for you? Like how much time are you spending on this um and then how much time are you spending on content? >> Man, that's been uh the hardest part. So I'm trying to scale up my team and uh so if you have recommendations on editors, let me know. >> Oh, on editors. Okay. >> I so I'm looking for a producer and an editor. Like I basically like I really enjoyed doing the producing aspects previously and now it's just like I don't have time cuz I'm spending most of my time actually coding and building this thing out. The whole point is like the content I love making content about spatial intelligence. That's always been my shtick and I want to keep doing that. And as you can see with the other video content I've been producing, it's like basically what I'm trying to do is also like, you know, again, I call them frontier maps. I want to give away the recipe too. Like a lot of people like advised me saying like, "Why are you so detailed about how you created this? Why are you putting like which APIs you used on your Substack?" And I'm like, "What what are you This information needs to be free." Again, like this is and the fact that you see people riffing on stuff and then they cite you as credit to go do it. That to me so enriching cuz they give me ideas. So that feedback loop I think people should spur and I want to lean more into that. So the content has to stay. >> Never let Never let someone get you to not do that because what you own is not the software. You own the movement, right? And so as soon as Yeah, as soon as you close it off, you don't let anyone else participate except for as a consumer of your technology, then you also allow someone else to create the movement, right? In that in I think we're kind of in that era of software. So Sorry to interrupt you. I I just >> No, it's beautiful point. >> Yeah, so many people will advise you to just like keep all the secrets for yourself. But if you look at all the people who are crushing it in business and content where they don't really have any secrets, they just they truly own the movement. I think of Alex Hormozi a lot with the business side where he just like all the business people try to release courses and they don't even come close to the content that he just gives away for free on on a business side. And so I think >> that's how you win is you just create the biggest movement you possibly can. >> And make it like give people the templates to have fun with this stuff, right? Like half of this stuff is like we're all discovering what these agents are capable of and it's so fun to me. Like I literally say this at the end of my videos is like point your clanker at this YouTube video transcript, tell them to go to my Substack, use that as a map and make your own thing. And I've gotten outreaches from like even for like the the shot tracking application I made. People are like, "Oh my god, this is like at this intersection of three different things I care about. Check out this thing I made." Or hey, check this out. You know that topic you covered? We actually have this kind of system on an airplane. You want to come out to New Mexico and like ride in it and like we'd love to see what you Like it's it's insane the things that happen when you just like kind of give people maps to build their own journeys, right? In a sense. And so so that to me is very exciting. But yeah, like coming back to the the content thing cuz yeah, if you if you know good producers who are good at like um you know, essentially or anyone listening to this that like like likes the kind of content I make and is interested in taking like my mad science experiments and like ideas like to like these complicated topics I'm trying to cover and make it accessible. Like my the goal for my video content, if you watch any of my video essays, is like if an expert in that field sees it, they're like, "This is a good distilled summary." And if a normie sees it, they're like, "Oh, I actually understood that for the first time." It can't It There's too much, you know, people are There There's a lot of content out there that just gets a little bit more um I don't know. Especially in this space with geospatial and kind of like real-world understanding. It's so dual-use. There's a lot of either fear-mongering or ultra-maximalist like defense tech hoorah. And it's like there's no nuance in the middle and it's like >> Sure. >> you know, so trying my best to to strike that balance, but >> Yeah. >> Gosh, it's so much fun. I think I have way way more screen time and Vibe coding is probably more addictive than social media. I'll tell you that. That's for sure. >> 100%. It's so fun, especially the way that you've done it. I think I think honestly, I when you open source that, I may just try and have a little fun with it. Maybe I'll do a live stream. That sounds like a absolute blast. Um anyway, >> dude, this has been so much fun. We should do this again soon. Um thank you so much for for coming on the episode and I wish you the best of luck with your company. You're going to I I know you're going to crush it. >> Thanks for having me.